Empathy List Archives

RH

Ross Hyman

Sat, Oct 7, 2017 8:28 PM

Hi Kristofer,I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site: http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf
This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods website, especially since most of the other links to election method descriptions are broken.

The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives.

What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28.

Best,Ross

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 2:02 PM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de> wrote:

On 10/01/2017 02:42 PM, Ross Hyman wrote:

Repeatedly remove the weakest link whose removal leaves at least one
ranking of all of the candidates in which there is a direct win for the
higher candidate over the next lower candidate. When only one such
ranking exists, elect that ranking of candidates.

This method is different from Tideman Ranked pairs.
Consider the pair ordering B>D, B>A, C>B, D>C, C>A, A>D.
The above method produces: D>C>B>A. The Tideman order is C>B>A>D. The
Tideman order is better. The Schulze winner is also C.

Warren's Maxtree method is another Ranked-Pairs-like that it might be
interesting to investigate. The method's logic is akin to:

Ranked Pairs is similar to Kruskal's algorithm for finding a minimum
spanning tree in an undirected graph.
But the graph induced by the Condorcet matrix is directed.
So use an MST algorithm for weighted graphs instead.
This algorithm is Chu-Liu-Edmonds and the method becomes max-tree.
(See Warren's votedesc.pdf for more information)

I've never got around to implementing it, though.

Hi Kristofer,I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site: http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods website, especially since most of the other links to election method descriptions are broken. The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives. What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28. Best,Ross On Sunday, October 1, 2017 2:02 PM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de> wrote: On 10/01/2017 02:42 PM, Ross Hyman wrote: > Repeatedly remove the weakest link whose removal leaves at least one > ranking of all of the candidates in which there is a direct win for the > higher candidate over the next lower candidate. When only one such > ranking exists, elect that ranking of candidates. > > This method is different from Tideman Ranked pairs. > Consider the pair ordering B>D, B>A, C>B, D>C, C>A, A>D. > The above method produces: D>C>B>A. The Tideman order is C>B>A>D. The > Tideman order is better. The Schulze winner is also C. Warren's Maxtree method is another Ranked-Pairs-like that it might be interesting to investigate. The method's logic is akin to: - Ranked Pairs is similar to Kruskal's algorithm for finding a minimum spanning tree in an undirected graph. - But the graph induced by the Condorcet matrix is directed. - So use an MST algorithm for weighted graphs instead. - This algorithm is Chu-Liu-Edmonds and the method becomes max-tree. (See Warren's votedesc.pdf for more information) I've never got around to implementing it, though.

KM

Kristofer Munsterhjelm

Sun, Oct 8, 2017 12:31 PM

On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, Ross Hyman wrote:

Hi Kristofer,
I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site:
http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf

This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods
website, especially since most of the other links to election method
descriptions are broken.

The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain
the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the
official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I
haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method
will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives.

What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or
your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get
the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28.

Best,
Ross

electorama.com has had some problems with its mailing list
administration lately. First the election-methods list disappeared from
http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi some years ago, and then this.

http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/
states

"Note:The archive search index was last rebuilt at Friday, 29 Sep 2017
21:39:45 PDT. Any postings after that will not be found by a search.
Index rebuild is usally done once every 24 hours for this list. You can
use a "View by date" link below to access more recent postings. "

So it seems like some kind of scheduled program has stopped working.

Since the electorama server has had problems in the past as well, it
might be an idea to move it elsewhere... Same with the electorama wiki;
both could use some maintenance, it seems like; although I haven't
recently checked if the TeX problem has been fixed.

On-topic, it could be interesting to have a proof of what kind of
chain/DAG methods satisfy LIIA. LIIA doesn't have to imply clone
independence because Kemeny passes the former and fails the latter, at
least.

On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, Ross Hyman wrote: > Hi Kristofer, > I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site: > http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf > > This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods > website, especially since most of the other links to election method > descriptions are broken. > > The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain > the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the > official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I > haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method > will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives. > > What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or > your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get > the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28. > > Best, > Ross electorama.com has had some problems with its mailing list administration lately. First the election-methods list disappeared from http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi some years ago, and then this. http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/ states "Note:The archive search index was last rebuilt at Friday, 29 Sep 2017 21:39:45 PDT. Any postings after that will not be found by a search. Index rebuild is usally done once every 24 hours for this list. You can use a "View by date" link below to access more recent postings. " So it seems like some kind of scheduled program has stopped working. Since the electorama server has had problems in the past as well, it might be an idea to move it elsewhere... Same with the electorama wiki; both could use some maintenance, it seems like; although I haven't recently checked if the TeX problem has been fixed. On-topic, it could be interesting to have a proof of what kind of chain/DAG methods satisfy LIIA. LIIA doesn't have to imply clone independence because Kemeny passes the former and fails the latter, at least.

RH

Ross Hyman

Sun, Oct 8, 2017 1:24 PM

Well, it doesn't satisfy LIIA.A>B, B>C, A>D, B>D, C>A, D>CThe ranking is B>C>A>D.Remove D and the ranking becomes A>B>C.

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 7:31 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de> wrote:

On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, Ross Hyman wrote:

Hi Kristofer,
I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site:
http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf

This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods
website, especially since most of the other links to election method
descriptions are broken.

The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain
the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the
official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I
haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method
will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives.

What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or
your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get
the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28.

Best,
Ross

electorama.com has had some problems with its mailing list
administration lately. First the election-methods list disappeared from
http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi some years ago, and then this.

http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/
states

"Note:The archive search index was last rebuilt at Friday, 29 Sep 2017
21:39:45 PDT. Any postings after that will not be found by a search.
Index rebuild is usally done once every 24 hours for this list. You can
use a "View by date" link below to access more recent postings. "

So it seems like some kind of scheduled program has stopped working.

Since the electorama server has had problems in the past as well, it
might be an idea to move it elsewhere... Same with the electorama wiki;
both could use some maintenance, it seems like; although I haven't
recently checked if the TeX problem has been fixed.

On-topic, it could be interesting to have a proof of what kind of
chain/DAG methods satisfy LIIA. LIIA doesn't have to imply clone
independence because Kemeny passes the former and fails the latter, at
least.

Well, it doesn't satisfy LIIA.A>B, B>C, A>D, B>D, C>A, D>CThe ranking is B>C>A>D.Remove D and the ranking becomes A>B>C. On Sunday, October 8, 2017 7:31 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de> wrote: On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, Ross Hyman wrote: > Hi Kristofer, > I found Warren Smith's votedesc.pdf document on M. Schulze's site: > http://m-schulze.9mail.de/votedesc.pdf > > This is a great document. I think it should be on the Election Methods > website, especially since most of the other links to election method > descriptions are broken. > > The variation I am proposing to Warren's Maxtree method is to constrain > the form of the spanning tree to a directed chain (or whatever the > official name is) A>B>C>D.... and then maximize the minimum link. I > haven't had time to think about it too much but I am hoping the method > will satisfy local independence of irrelevant alternatives. > > What's up with the election methods list? I have not seen my posting or > your response to it on the archive, which is what I read. I don't get > the emails. The last posting in the archive is from Sept 28. > > Best, > Ross electorama.com has had some problems with its mailing list administration lately. First the election-methods list disappeared from http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi some years ago, and then this. http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/ states "Note:The archive search index was last rebuilt at Friday, 29 Sep 2017 21:39:45 PDT. Any postings after that will not be found by a search. Index rebuild is usally done once every 24 hours for this list. You can use a "View by date" link below to access more recent postings. " So it seems like some kind of scheduled program has stopped working. Since the electorama server has had problems in the past as well, it might be an idea to move it elsewhere... Same with the electorama wiki; both could use some maintenance, it seems like; although I haven't recently checked if the TeX problem has been fixed. On-topic, it could be interesting to have a proof of what kind of chain/DAG methods satisfy LIIA. LIIA doesn't have to imply clone independence because Kemeny passes the former and fails the latter, at least.

election-methods@mailman.electorama.com

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