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Re: APR complements Practical Democracy (PD) best (Steve Bosworth)

SB
steve bosworth
Sun, Jan 31, 2016 6:28 PM

[EM] Re: APR complements Practical
Democracy (PD) best (Steve Bosworth)

Subject: Election-Methods Digest, Vol 139, Issue 23

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:54:49 -0800

[….]

  1. Re: Practical Democracy (Frank Martinez)

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:54:46 -0500

From: Frank Martinez frankdmartinez@gmail.com

To: Fred Gohlke fredgohlke@verizon.net

Subject: Re: [EM] Practical Democrach

[….]

From
Steve to Fred and everyone:

M:

On Monday, January 25, 2016, Fred Gohlke fredgohlke@verizon.net

wrote:

PRACTICAL DEMOCRACY

Abstract


When we speak of government by the people, 'the people' is not an

amorphous mass. It is an abundance of individuals: some brilliant,

some

dull; some good, some bad; some with integrity, some deceitful. To

achieve

government by the people, we must sift through this diversity to find

the

individuals with the qualities needed to address and resolve

contemporary

public concerns.

In a truly democratic political process, the entire electorate will

participate in defining the issues the government must address and

selecting the individuals best equipped to resolve those issues. The

size

of the electorate and the varying level of interest in public affairs

among

the populace make the matter of including everyone a challenge.

S:
Fred, I see your voluntary Practical Democracy’s (PD’s) triadic and multi-leveled
process as very valuable.  It wisely
suggests how as many of the citizens of a country as are willing could agree to
work together to improve their political knowledge, skills and opportunities.
It would help give them as much influence as possible on the binding
decisions-made formally by a state’s legislative assembly and government (or
any level of jurisdiction within that state).  The more citizens who participated, the more
democratic and wise are these decisions likely to be.

At
the same time, I want to argue that the formal electoral system which would
maximize the likelihood of PD being successful in making these decisions fully
democratic is Associational Proportional Representation (APR). For example,
APR’s primary election allows

all citizens directly to decide which
applicant organizations will be the electoral “associations” through which all
candidates will be selected to run during the later general election, and

APR’s general election allows each
citizen to guarantee that her one vote will be added to the “weighted vote” of
the one elected candidate in the legislative assembly whom she trusts to
represent her own values and concerns. I am emailing the article to you
separately which systematically explains how APR works:  “Equal Voting Sustained”.  I will also email it to anyone else who
requests it (stevebosworth@hotmail.com).

Please
let me know whether or not you also find APR to be the electoral system that
would complement PD best.

Below,
are listed some of the phrases from your own ABSTRACT which most strikingly
suggest to me that PD and APR would entirely complement each other:

…. to identify the individuals

most motivated and best qualified to address and resolve the people's concerns;

When the people are only

allowed to choose from party-chosen options, the

ability to vote for one of them is neither free nor democratic.

In spite of the dangers

inherent in partisanship, we must recognize that

it is a vital part of society. People differ, and it is essential

that

they should, because we advance our common interest by examining

conceivable options. Differing people seek out and align themselves

with

others who share their views. In the process of doing so, they hone

their

views to help form a consensus. That is the way they give breadth,

depth

and volume to their voice.

…. open inquiry

Intelligent decisions require

discourse; assertions must be examined, not

in the sterile environment of a televised debate, but in depth. The

electorate must be able to examine candidates and discuss matters of

public

concern, and, with the knowledge so gained, make decisions.

New machinery to support a democratic political process

must enable and encourage dialogue and deliberation on

political issues among the electorate.

What choices are available to

the voters when the only names on the ballot

are those chosen by the parties? When the dominant party repeatedly

chooses the same candidate and the opposing candidate is an

unacceptable

alternative, the people have no way to bring new minds to their

government. Systems that let organized groups decide who can be a

candidate for public office are profoundly undemocratic.

Dynamic systems require fresh

minds. The current and emerging problems

facing the electorate change constantly. The inability to select new

representatives equipped to resolve contemporary issues injures the

entire

community. In addition, rot thrives in a closed environment. Just

like

with apples in barrels, corruption flourishes when incumbents are

repeatedly returned to office.

New machinery to support a

democratic political process

must include a way for the people to change their

representatives, as they deem appropriate.

The challenge of democracy is to find the best advocates of the common

interest and raise them to positions of leadership. To meet that

challenge, given the range of public issues and the way each

individual's

interest in political matters varies over time, an effective

electoral

process must examine the entire electorate during each electoral

cycle,

seeking the people's best advocates.

Machinery that gives the entire electorate a voice in the political

process must accommodate the fact that the desire to participate in

political affairs varies from one individual to the next. Some have

no

desire to participate, some will participate for altruistic reasons,

some

will participate to advance their self-interest, and some will be

indifferent. To reconcile this diversity, a democratic process must

be

open to all, without coercion.

We cannot know what treasures of political ability will be unearthed

when

people are invited to deliberate on their common concerns - with a

purpose. Some, who start out unsure of their ability, will, as they

learn

they can persuade others of the value of their perspective, gain

confidence

in their ability to influence the political process. In doing so, the

people gain the internal goods that can only be attained through the

practice of politics.

  1. New machinery to support a democratic
    political process

must be inclusive. It must be a bottom-up arrangement

that lets every member of the community influence political

decisions to the full extent of each individual's desire and

ability.

Political systems are always an embodiment of human nature. Since we

cannot divorce our political institutions from our own nature, the

new

machinery to support a democratic political process must harness our

nature. It must make the qualities needed to represent the common interest

desirable attributes in those who seek political advancement.

Given the wide range of desire and ability among the members of

society,

an inclusive environment must be arranged to encourage the greatest

participation.

Pogrebinschi

found that "... policies for minority groups deliberated in the

national

conferences tend to be crosscutting as to their content. The policies

tend

to favor more than one group simultaneously..."[8]

If we are to create an environment for effective political dialogue,

we

must create a framework in which all citizens are encouraged to

discuss

their political concerns with their peers. Such inclusiveness can be

achieved by arranging the voters in small groups where people with

differing views discuss issues that concern them.

Since public issues are inseparable from the people who resolve them,

the

groups must identify the individuals in their group who best

represent

their interests. The people so chosen can deliberate with the choices

of

other groups to identify the community's most pressing issues and the

individuals best suited to address them.

The purpose of the process is to advance the best advocates of each

group's perspective on contemporary problems, in a pyramidal fashion,

to

deliberate with the selections of other groups.

  1. Viewed this way, we can say that when
    selecting representatives of the

public interest, a system that encourages dialogue is preferable to

one

that relies on a monologue [….]

People that do

not declare group membership are automatically assigned to

a set of people with no affiliation. Triads will be

created from members of the same interest group [same “electoral

association”], as long as more than two members of the group exist.

The final phase of the Practical Democracy (PD) process, electing

candidates to specific public offices, is omitted from this outline

because

that task is implementation-dependent. [Steve claims that the optimal

“final phase” would be the use of APR to elect the legislative assembly.

The PD process lets particular interests attract supporters to

their cause and elevate their most effective advocates during each

electoral cycle. Advocates of those interests can proclaim their

ideas and

encourage discussion of their concepts. Some will be accepted, in

whole or

in part, as they are shown to be in the common interest of the

community.

Most people expect their elected officials to represent their interests.

The difficulty is that communities are made up of diverse interests

and the

relations between those interests can be contentious. Constructive

resolution of political issues requires, first of all, lawmakers with

the

ability to recognize the value in the various points of view, from

the

people's perspective. That is impossible for legislators elected to

represent partisan interests.

PD focuses on selecting representatives who will resolve adversarial

encounters to the advantage of the commonweal. During the process,

participants necessarily consider both common and conflicting

interests,

and, because PD is intrinsically bidirectional, it gives advocates of

conflicting interests a continuing voice. At the same time, it

encourages

the absorption of diverse interests, reducing them to their essential

element: their effect on the participants in the electoral process.

PD is a bottom-up process

that lets every member of the community

participate to the full extent of each individual's desire and

ability,

1--> it incorporates partisanship without letting partisans

control the process;

3--> it enables and encourages dialogue and deliberation on

political issues among the electorate;

4--> it includes a way for the people to change their

representatives as they deem appropriate; and

5--> it is a bottom-up arrangement that lets every member of

the community influence political decisions to the full

extent of each individual's desire and ability.

That is the essence of a democratic political process.

S:  I look forward to any replies, comments,
criticisms, questions, or counter arguments.

Steve

[EM] Re: APR complements Practical Democracy (PD) best (Steve Bosworth) > From: election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com > Subject: Election-Methods Digest, Vol 139, Issue 23 > To: election-methods@lists.electorama.com > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 06:54:49 -0800 > [….] > 1. Re: Practical Democracy (Frank Martinez) > > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:54:46 -0500 > From: Frank Martinez <frankdmartinez@gmail.com> > To: Fred Gohlke <fredgohlke@verizon.net> > Cc: "election-methods@lists.electorama.com" > <election-methods@lists.electorama.com> > Subject: Re: [EM] Practical Democrach [….] From Steve to Fred and everyone: M: > On Monday, January 25, 2016, Fred Gohlke <fredgohlke@verizon.net> wrote: > > > PRACTICAL DEMOCRACY > > > > Abstract > > -------- > > When we speak of government by the people, 'the people' is not an > > amorphous mass. It is an abundance of individuals: some brilliant, some > > dull; some good, some bad; some with integrity, some deceitful. To achieve > > government by the people, we must sift through this diversity to find the > > individuals with the qualities needed to address and resolve contemporary > > public concerns. > > > > In a truly democratic political process, the entire electorate will > > participate in defining the issues the government must address and > > selecting the individuals best equipped to resolve those issues. The size > > of the electorate and the varying level of interest in public affairs among > > the populace make the matter of including everyone a challenge. S: Fred, I see your voluntary Practical Democracy’s (PD’s) triadic and multi-leveled process as very valuable. It wisely suggests how as many of the citizens of a country as are willing could agree to work together to improve their political knowledge, skills and opportunities. It would help give them as much influence as possible on the binding decisions-made formally by a state’s legislative assembly and government (or any level of jurisdiction within that state). The more citizens who participated, the more democratic and wise are these decisions likely to be. At the same time, I want to argue that the formal electoral system which would maximize the likelihood of PD being successful in making these decisions fully democratic is Associational Proportional Representation (APR). For example, APR’s primary election allows 1) all citizens directly to decide which applicant organizations will be the electoral “associations” through which all candidates will be selected to run during the later general election, and 2) APR’s general election allows each citizen to guarantee that her one vote will be added to the “weighted vote” of the one elected candidate in the legislative assembly whom she trusts to represent her own values and concerns. I am emailing the article to you separately which systematically explains how APR works: “Equal Voting Sustained”. I will also email it to anyone else who requests it (stevebosworth@hotmail.com). Please let me know whether or not you also find APR to be the electoral system that would complement PD best. Below, are listed some of the phrases from your own ABSTRACT which most strikingly suggest to me that PD and APR would entirely complement each other: 1) >>…. to identify the individuals most motivated and best qualified to address and resolve the people's concerns; 2) >> When the people are only allowed to choose from party-chosen options, the > > ability to vote for one of them is neither free nor democratic. 3) >> In spite of the dangers inherent in partisanship, we must recognize that > > it is a vital part of society. People differ, and it is essential that > > they should, because we advance our common interest by examining > > conceivable options. Differing people seek out and align themselves with > > others who share their views. In the process of doing so, they hone their > > views to help form a consensus. That is the way they give breadth, depth > > and volume to their voice. 4) >> …. open inquiry 5) >> Intelligent decisions require discourse; assertions must be examined, not > > in the sterile environment of a televised debate, but in depth. The > > electorate must be able to examine candidates and discuss matters of public > > concern, and, with the knowledge so gained, make decisions. 6) >> New machinery to support a democratic political process > > must enable and encourage dialogue and deliberation on > > political issues among the electorate. 7) >> What choices are available to the voters when the only names on the ballot > > are those chosen by the parties? When the dominant party repeatedly > > chooses the same candidate and the opposing candidate is an unacceptable > > alternative, the people have no way to bring new minds to their > > government. Systems that let organized groups decide who can be a > > candidate for public office are profoundly undemocratic. 8) >> Dynamic systems require fresh minds. The current and emerging problems > > facing the electorate change constantly. The inability to select new > > representatives equipped to resolve contemporary issues injures the entire > > community. In addition, rot thrives in a closed environment. Just like > > with apples in barrels, corruption flourishes when incumbents are > > repeatedly returned to office. 9) >> New machinery to support a democratic political process > > must include a way for the people to change their > > representatives, as they deem appropriate. 10) >> The challenge of democracy is to find the best advocates of the common > > interest and raise them to positions of leadership. To meet that > > challenge, given the range of public issues and the way each individual's > > interest in political matters varies over time, an effective electoral > > process must examine the entire electorate during each electoral cycle, > > seeking the people's best advocates. > > > > Machinery that gives the entire electorate a voice in the political > > process must accommodate the fact that the desire to participate in > > political affairs varies from one individual to the next. Some have no > > desire to participate, some will participate for altruistic reasons, some > > will participate to advance their self-interest, and some will be > > indifferent. To reconcile this diversity, a democratic process must be > > open to all, without coercion. > > > > We cannot know what treasures of political ability will be unearthed when > > people are invited to deliberate on their common concerns - with a > > purpose. Some, who start out unsure of their ability, will, as they learn > > they can persuade others of the value of their perspective, gain confidence > > in their ability to influence the political process. In doing so, the > > people gain the internal goods that can only be attained through the > > practice of politics. 11) >> New machinery to support a democratic political process > > must be inclusive. It must be a bottom-up arrangement > > that lets every member of the community influence political > > decisions to the full extent of each individual's desire and > > ability. 12) > > Political systems are always an embodiment of human nature. Since we > > cannot divorce our political institutions from our own nature, the new > > machinery to support a democratic political process must harness our > > nature. It must make the qualities needed to represent the common interest > > desirable attributes in those who seek political advancement. > > Given the wide range of desire and ability among the members of society, > > an inclusive environment must be arranged to encourage the greatest > > participation. 13) >> Pogrebinschi > > found that "... policies for minority groups deliberated in the national > > conferences tend to be crosscutting as to their content. The policies tend > > to favor more than one group simultaneously..."[8] > > > > If we are to create an environment for effective political dialogue, we > > must create a framework in which all citizens are encouraged to discuss > > their political concerns with their peers. Such inclusiveness can be > > achieved by arranging the voters in small groups where people with > > differing views discuss issues that concern them. > > > > Since public issues are inseparable from the people who resolve them, the > > groups must identify the individuals in their group who best represent > > their interests. The people so chosen can deliberate with the choices of > > other groups to identify the community's most pressing issues and the > > individuals best suited to address them. 14) >> The purpose of the process is to advance the best advocates of each > > group's perspective on contemporary problems, in a pyramidal fashion, to > > deliberate with the selections of other groups. 15) >> Viewed this way, we can say that when selecting representatives of the > > public interest, a system that encourages dialogue is preferable to one > > that relies on a monologue [….] 16) >> People that do > > not declare group membership are automatically assigned to > > a set of people with no affiliation. Triads will be > > created from members of the same interest group [same “electoral association”], as long as more than two members of the group exist. 17) >> The final phase of the Practical Democracy (PD) process, electing > > candidates to specific public offices, is omitted from this outline because > > that task is implementation-dependent. [Steve claims that the optimal “final phase” would be the use of APR to elect the legislative assembly. 18) >> The PD process lets particular interests attract supporters to > > their cause and elevate their most effective advocates during each > > electoral cycle. Advocates of those interests can proclaim their ideas and > > encourage discussion of their concepts. Some will be accepted, in whole or > > in part, as they are shown to be in the common interest of the community. 19) >> Most people expect their elected officials to represent their interests. > > The difficulty is that communities are made up of diverse interests and the > > relations between those interests can be contentious. Constructive > > resolution of political issues requires, first of all, lawmakers with the > > ability to recognize the value in the various points of view, from the > > people's perspective. That is impossible for legislators elected to > > represent partisan interests. 20) >> PD focuses on selecting representatives who will resolve adversarial > > encounters to the advantage of the commonweal. During the process, > > participants necessarily consider both common and conflicting interests, > > and, because PD is intrinsically bidirectional, it gives advocates of > > conflicting interests a continuing voice. At the same time, it encourages > > the absorption of diverse interests, reducing them to their essential > > element: their effect on the participants in the electoral process. 21) > > PD is a bottom-up process that lets every member of the community > > participate to the full extent of each individual's desire and ability, > > > > 1--> it incorporates partisanship without letting partisans > > control the process; > > > > 3--> it enables and encourages dialogue and deliberation on > > political issues among the electorate; > > > > 4--> it includes a way for the people to change their > > representatives as they deem appropriate; and > > > > 5--> it is a bottom-up arrangement that lets every member of > > the community influence political decisions to the full > > extent of each individual's desire and ability. > > > > That is the essence of a democratic political process. S: I look forward to any replies, comments, criticisms, questions, or counter arguments. Steve
FG
Fred Gohlke
Wed, Feb 3, 2016 3:16 PM

Good Morning, Steve Bosworth

Thank you for your supportive thoughts on the PD concept (although, if
you can forgive me for saying so, editing the file to make it legible
was a major chore).

It may be that we can merge our efforts, but I think we should proceed
slowly.  We need to find out if we agree on some basic issues.  For
example, I'm very concerned about the manipulative influence of the
media on people with little or no interest in politics but who make up
an important part of the electorate.  May I ask how APR minimizes the
adverse effects of this phenomenon?

Fred Gohlke

Good Morning, Steve Bosworth Thank you for your supportive thoughts on the PD concept (although, if you can forgive me for saying so, editing the file to make it legible was a major chore). It may be that we can merge our efforts, but I think we should proceed slowly. We need to find out if we agree on some basic issues. For example, I'm very concerned about the manipulative influence of the media on people with little or no interest in politics but who make up an important part of the electorate. May I ask how APR minimizes the adverse effects of this phenomenon? Fred Gohlke