Kristofer, what method should be used to poll on the preference on methods?Powered by Cricket Wireless------ Original message------From: Kristofer MunsterhjelmDate: Sat, Apr 6, 2024 10:04To: Toby Pereira;Filip Ejlak;Michael Ossipoff;Cc: EM;Subject:Re: [EM] Poll on voting-systems, to inform voters in upcoming enactment-electionsOn 2024-04-06 09:14, Toby Pereira wrote:

Maybe somebody else could run the poll? I'd nominate myself, but I've
got two people blocked.

I guess I could unplonk them for the duration if no better solution
presents itself -- but if MO has got me blocked too, it'd be far from ideal.

-km

Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list info

On 2024-04-06 16:33, robert bristow-johnson wrote:

For the ranked ballots, I'd just use one of the defeat-droppers. I
imagine that they would all lead to the same result up to ties. I like
Ext-Minmax[1] myself because it has a very low tie rate, but again, I
think anything would do.

If there's a cycle, I'd report the Smith set.

Rob LeGrand's ranked-ballot voting calculator, listed at
https://electowiki.org/wiki/Online_poll, can both do Minmax and identify
the Smith set. It can't do Ext-Minmax, but it should be relatively easy
to verify the order by eyeballing the Condorcet matrix if that becomes
an issue.

As I understood it, Mike also wanted to do an Approval poll by asking us
to submit Approval ballots alongside the ranked ones. For these, the
method would be Approval itself. I probably wouldn't ask for an Approval
poll if I were running it, but it doesn't bother me if one's included
either.

-km

[1] Ext-Minmax is just: the winner is the candidate with the least worst
pairwise defeat. Break remaining ties by second worst defeats, third
worst defeats, etc.

I blocked Kristofer, Garman, Toby, & Bristow for justifiable reasons,
stated at the time.

But anyone can relay, repost or quote anything that they say about the
poll, including nominations & ballots.

There’s no intention to not count any nomination or ballot.

I think we can easily agree that Schulze has long been the most popular
method here.

To use a new-invention-method for this poll would be inappropriate, when
there’s a long/established, well-established favorite.

Another advantage of Schulze is that relatively much people already have
program or calculators to count it…including CIVS, which seems the most
convenient & most official way to counter the poll.

I suggest using a private CIVS poll
to get a Schulze output-ranking…finishing-order.

Let’s use a CIVS private poll.

If Kristofer or Bristow have posted nominations, I’d appreciate it if
someone would re-post them.

…&. likewise for any other nominations that I might have missed.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 07:33 robert bristow-johnson <
rbj@audioimagination.com> wrote:

Here, I'd just say that the ideal is to collect cardinal ballots and
release them completely, so we can calculate any method we want.

Personally, I'd like to do a complete data analysis that probably wouldn't
use any particular voting method.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 7:34 AM robert bristow-johnson <
rbj@audioimagination.com> wrote:

Closed, my favorite is Approval, & I prefer Score to the ranked-methods,
due to its relative simplicity & FBC compliance… especially when it’s used
right…voting max &
zero, & using partial-points only when it’s uncertain whether a candidate
deserves approval.

But, realistically, EM prefers Condorcet complying methods.

To vote on the choice of a voting method for the poll:

(#1 is of interest, but #2 is primary)

1. What are a few of your most favorite of those?

2. Rank a few of your favorites in order of preference.

…&, in case there’s a circlular-tie, designate a method whose winner you’d
approve, along with whatever you like better.

That’s the Voter’s Choice solution if there’s circular-tie, when we don’t
have an agreed-upon completion-rule.

To
On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 20:40 Closed Limelike Curves <
closed.limelike.curves@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2024-04-10 05:40, Closed Limelike Curves wrote:

I would prefer not having to determine my indifference over lotteries,
but then I'm one of the odd sort who thinks ranking is easier than rating.

That's not to keep others from rated voting if they so desire. Just
saying I probably won't be doing so myself :-)

-km