Are you being deliberately dense here? The scenario, as you've laid it out, is as follows: There are *three* candidates: G, D, and R. You rank G > D > R. If R is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and D. Your vote counts for your first choice, G. If D is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and R. Your vote counts for your first choice, G. If G is eliminated first, the final tally is between D and R. Your vote counts for your second choice, D. Thus, your vote doesn't count for R under any circumstance. Oops!! On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:02 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:57 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> > wrote: > >> Okay, so G can't win. Move your eyes up to the very previous sentence I >> wrote. >> >> > If G is eliminated first, your ballot counts for D vs. R in round 2. >> > > Yes: “IF”. > > Oops!! FairVote forgot to say “maybe” or “if…”. > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:55 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:41 Michael Garman < >>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If D is eliminated first, your ballot counts for G vs. R in round 2. >>>> >>> >>> The promise was about when 1st choice can’t win. When it’s determined >>> that Green’s votecount loses to Republican’s votecount, Your next-ranked >>> choice, the Democrat, is no longer there. Contrary to FairVote’s promise, >>> you didn’t help hir. >>> >>> The dishonesty of that false promise is recognized throughout the >>> electoral reform movement. >>> >>> Continuing to talk to a cult-Irvist is pointless. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:39 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:26 Michael Garman < >>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Your next choice is your next highest choice in the running. That’s >>>>>> pretty self-evident. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, what’s evident is that FairVote promises that, if your favorite is >>>>> the Green, & you rank sincerely, Green>Democrat>Republican, your ballot >>>>> will count for the Democrat if the Green can’t win. >>>>> >>>>> No one but you interprets it to mean that your ballot will help your >>>>> 3rd-choice, the Republican to win. >>>>> >>>>> No one but you interprets that promise to mean the Republican as your >>>>> next choice. >>>>> >>>>> Your dishonest contortions are cultish. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I did forget about EqualVote, but what has EqualVote accomplished? >>>>>> Honest question. I haven’t seen anything of a grassroots presence from >>>>>> them. If I’m wrong, correct me — their mission is admirable. >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s certainly not a stretch to say that the overwhelming majority of >>>>>> legislative and ballot-measure electoral reform accomplishments belong to >>>>>> FairVote and allies. >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:22 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Your next choice after your 1st choice is your 2nd-choice, who is no >>>>>>> longer there when your 1st choice is determined to lose. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst, your 3rd choice. >>>>>>> That wasn’t FairVote’s promise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”. …but without all the >>>>>>> wealth that did the work for FairVote. EqualVote are a newer organization, >>>>>>> & therefore haven’t been “doing the work” for as long. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I merely question the honesty & morality of how FairVote has been >>>>>>> “doing the work”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08 Michael Garman < >>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Our cult” are the only people actually out there doing the work. >>>>>>>> Try talking to voters instead of hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I >>>>>>>> recommend it :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Show me where FairVote explicitly states “second choice” rather >>>>>>>> than “next choice.” >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Evidently it’s necessary to repeat that, no, that isn’t what >>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. They promise that your ballot will count toward your >>>>>>>>> 2nd-choice. Not the same thing. Your ballot, & its 2nd-choice ranking of >>>>>>>>> your 2nd-choice didn’t help your 2nd choice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your last remaining choice? Undeniably your last remaining choice >>>>>>>>> WINS, because your 3rd choice is the only remaining one when all of your >>>>>>>>> other choices have lost. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Congratulations, you have the election of your last remaining >>>>>>>>> choice !!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> …by your strained dishonest argument. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your cult isn’t part of the electoral-reform movement. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The leaders of several single-winner-reform organizations met in >>>>>>>>> New Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called Rob Richie on the lie. >>>>>>>>> Richie promised to stop telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon >>>>>>>>> resumed doing so. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How do you want me to prove it. It was told to me by someone who >>>>>>>>> was there. Sara Wolk, the Director of the EqualVote Coalition. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shall I ask her for the date of the meeting? I will. Shall I ask >>>>>>>>> her for the names of the other participants too? I’ll do that too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman < >>>>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what >>>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you >>>>>>>>>> cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your >>>>>>>>>> claims of deception and failed to do so. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best >>>>>>>>>>> 1st instead of ranking Good 1st. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your >>>>>>>>>>> 2nd choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is >>>>>>>>>>> no longer there. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a >>>>>>>>>>> word for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we >>>>>>>>>>> have a word for that too. It’s called fraud. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in >>>>>>>>>>>> your scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying >>>>>>>>>>>> would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who >>>>>>>>>>>> ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the >>>>>>>>>>>> final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards >>>>>>>>>>>> Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg— >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best gets eliminated. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So all that remains is Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good-supporters either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice >>>>>>>>>>>>> transfer was to Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, >>>>>>>>>>>>> when I meant “Good-supporters”. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two >>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is never counted for "Worst." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running. Which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language you cite. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either hir ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transfers go to Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is no longer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your 2nd choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise is kept: Your 2nd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend’s definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice (because he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> !!!~ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promotion of RCV. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://electorama.com/em for list info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* >>>>>>>>>>>> Voter Choice Massachusetts >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org >>>>>>>>>>>> p :: 617.835.9161 >>>>>>>>>>>> w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> >>>>>>>>>>>> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em >>>>>>>>>>> for list info >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>

I didn’t say that your vote counts for the Republican. I told how FairVote’s promise is a lie, because ballot didn’t help the Democrat, your next-ranked choice. The Republican won because you ranked the Green 1st. RCV has the spoiler problem, & FairVote’s promise is a lie. I don’t have time for this. This discussion with IRV cultists is concluded. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 12:04 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: > Are you being deliberately dense here? > > The scenario, as you've laid it out, is as follows: > > There are *three* candidates: G, D, and R. You rank G > D > R. > > If R is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and D. Your vote > counts for your first choice, G. > > If D is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and R. Your vote > counts for your first choice, G. > > If G is eliminated first, the final tally is between D and R. Your vote > counts for your second choice, D. > > Thus, your vote doesn't count for R under any circumstance. Oops!! > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:02 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:57 Michael Garman < >> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >> >>> Okay, so G can't win. Move your eyes up to the very previous sentence I >>> wrote. >>> >>> > If G is eliminated first, your ballot counts for D vs. R in round 2. >>> >> >> Yes: “IF”. >> >> Oops!! FairVote forgot to say “maybe” or “if…”. >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:55 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:41 Michael Garman < >>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If D is eliminated first, your ballot counts for G vs. R in round 2. >>>>> >>>> >>>> The promise was about when 1st choice can’t win. When it’s determined >>>> that Green’s votecount loses to Republican’s votecount, Your next-ranked >>>> choice, the Democrat, is no longer there. Contrary to FairVote’s promise, >>>> you didn’t help hir. >>>> >>>> The dishonesty of that false promise is recognized throughout the >>>> electoral reform movement. >>>> >>>> Continuing to talk to a cult-Irvist is pointless. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:39 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:26 Michael Garman < >>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Your next choice is your next highest choice in the running. That’s >>>>>>> pretty self-evident. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, what’s evident is that FairVote promises that, if your favorite >>>>>> is the Green, & you rank sincerely, Green>Democrat>Republican, your ballot >>>>>> will count for the Democrat if the Green can’t win. >>>>>> >>>>>> No one but you interprets it to mean that your ballot will help your >>>>>> 3rd-choice, the Republican to win. >>>>>> >>>>>> No one but you interprets that promise to mean the Republican as your >>>>>> next choice. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your dishonest contortions are cultish. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I did forget about EqualVote, but what has EqualVote accomplished? >>>>>>> Honest question. I haven’t seen anything of a grassroots presence from >>>>>>> them. If I’m wrong, correct me — their mission is admirable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It’s certainly not a stretch to say that the overwhelming majority >>>>>>> of legislative and ballot-measure electoral reform accomplishments belong >>>>>>> to FairVote and allies. >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:22 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your next choice after your 1st choice is your 2nd-choice, who is >>>>>>>> no longer there when your 1st choice is determined to lose. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst, your 3rd choice. >>>>>>>> That wasn’t FairVote’s promise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”. …but without all >>>>>>>> the wealth that did the work for FairVote. EqualVote are a newer >>>>>>>> organization, & therefore haven’t been “doing the work” for as long. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I merely question the honesty & morality of how FairVote has been >>>>>>>> “doing the work”. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08 Michael Garman < >>>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Our cult” are the only people actually out there doing the work. >>>>>>>>> Try talking to voters instead of hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I >>>>>>>>> recommend it :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Show me where FairVote explicitly states “second choice” rather >>>>>>>>> than “next choice.” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Evidently it’s necessary to repeat that, no, that isn’t what >>>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. They promise that your ballot will count toward your >>>>>>>>>> 2nd-choice. Not the same thing. Your ballot, & its 2nd-choice ranking of >>>>>>>>>> your 2nd-choice didn’t help your 2nd choice. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your last remaining choice? Undeniably your last remaining choice >>>>>>>>>> WINS, because your 3rd choice is the only remaining one when all of your >>>>>>>>>> other choices have lost. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Congratulations, you have the election of your last remaining >>>>>>>>>> choice !!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> …by your strained dishonest argument. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your cult isn’t part of the electoral-reform movement. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The leaders of several single-winner-reform organizations met in >>>>>>>>>> New Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called Rob Richie on the lie. >>>>>>>>>> Richie promised to stop telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon >>>>>>>>>> resumed doing so. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How do you want me to prove it. It was told to me by someone who >>>>>>>>>> was there. Sara Wolk, the Director of the EqualVote Coalition. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shall I ask her for the date of the meeting? I will. Shall I ask >>>>>>>>>> her for the names of the other participants too? I’ll do that too. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman < >>>>>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what >>>>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you >>>>>>>>>>> cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your >>>>>>>>>>> claims of deception and failed to do so. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best >>>>>>>>>>>> 1st instead of ranking Good 1st. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your >>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is >>>>>>>>>>>> no longer there. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a >>>>>>>>>>>> word for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we >>>>>>>>>>>> have a word for that too. It’s called fraud. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" >>>>>>>>>>>>> in your scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the >>>>>>>>>>>>> tallying would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> who ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted >>>>>>>>>>>>> towards Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg— >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best gets eliminated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So all that remains is Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good-supporters either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> transfer was to Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I meant “Good-supporters”. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round -- it is never counted for "Worst." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running. Which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language you cite. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either hir ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transfers go to Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is no longer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your 2nd choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise is kept: Your 2nd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend’s definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice (because he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> !!!~ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promotion of RCV. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://electorama.com/em for list info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Voter Choice Massachusetts >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> p :: 617.835.9161 >>>>>>>>>>>>> w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em >>>>>>>>>>>> for list info >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>

The only situation in which the ballot doesn't count for your next-ranked choice is when it is still active for your first-ranked choice. Oops!! On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:25 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > I didn’t say that your vote counts for the Republican. I told how > FairVote’s promise is a lie, because ballot didn’t help the Democrat, your > next-ranked choice. > > The Republican won because you ranked the Green 1st. RCV has the spoiler > problem, & FairVote’s promise is a lie. > > I don’t have time for this. > > This discussion with IRV cultists is concluded. > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 12:04 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> > wrote: > >> Are you being deliberately dense here? >> >> The scenario, as you've laid it out, is as follows: >> >> There are *three* candidates: G, D, and R. You rank G > D > R. >> >> If R is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and D. Your vote >> counts for your first choice, G. >> >> If D is eliminated first, the final tally is between G and R. Your vote >> counts for your first choice, G. >> >> If G is eliminated first, the final tally is between D and R. Your vote >> counts for your second choice, D. >> >> Thus, your vote doesn't count for R under any circumstance. Oops!! >> >> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:02 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:57 Michael Garman < >>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>> >>>> Okay, so G can't win. Move your eyes up to the very previous sentence I >>>> wrote. >>>> >>>> > If G is eliminated first, your ballot counts for D vs. R in round 2. >>>> >>> >>> Yes: “IF”. >>> >>> Oops!! FairVote forgot to say “maybe” or “if…”. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:55 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:41 Michael Garman < >>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If D is eliminated first, your ballot counts for G vs. R in round 2. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The promise was about when 1st choice can’t win. When it’s determined >>>>> that Green’s votecount loses to Republican’s votecount, Your next-ranked >>>>> choice, the Democrat, is no longer there. Contrary to FairVote’s promise, >>>>> you didn’t help hir. >>>>> >>>>> The dishonesty of that false promise is recognized throughout the >>>>> electoral reform movement. >>>>> >>>>> Continuing to talk to a cult-Irvist is pointless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:39 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:26 Michael Garman < >>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your next choice is your next highest choice in the running. That’s >>>>>>>> pretty self-evident. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, what’s evident is that FairVote promises that, if your favorite >>>>>>> is the Green, & you rank sincerely, Green>Democrat>Republican, your ballot >>>>>>> will count for the Democrat if the Green can’t win. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No one but you interprets it to mean that your ballot will help your >>>>>>> 3rd-choice, the Republican to win. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No one but you interprets that promise to mean the Republican as >>>>>>> your next choice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your dishonest contortions are cultish. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did forget about EqualVote, but what has EqualVote accomplished? >>>>>>>> Honest question. I haven’t seen anything of a grassroots presence from >>>>>>>> them. If I’m wrong, correct me — their mission is admirable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It’s certainly not a stretch to say that the overwhelming majority >>>>>>>> of legislative and ballot-measure electoral reform accomplishments belong >>>>>>>> to FairVote and allies. >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:22 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your next choice after your 1st choice is your 2nd-choice, who is >>>>>>>>> no longer there when your 1st choice is determined to lose. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst, your 3rd choice. >>>>>>>>> That wasn’t FairVote’s promise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”. …but without all >>>>>>>>> the wealth that did the work for FairVote. EqualVote are a newer >>>>>>>>> organization, & therefore haven’t been “doing the work” for as long. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I merely question the honesty & morality of how FairVote has been >>>>>>>>> “doing the work”. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08 Michael Garman < >>>>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> “Our cult” are the only people actually out there doing the work. >>>>>>>>>> Try talking to voters instead of hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I >>>>>>>>>> recommend it :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Show me where FairVote explicitly states “second choice” rather >>>>>>>>>> than “next choice.” >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Evidently it’s necessary to repeat that, no, that isn’t what >>>>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. They promise that your ballot will count toward your >>>>>>>>>>> 2nd-choice. Not the same thing. Your ballot, & its 2nd-choice ranking of >>>>>>>>>>> your 2nd-choice didn’t help your 2nd choice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your last remaining choice? Undeniably your last remaining >>>>>>>>>>> choice WINS, because your 3rd choice is the only remaining one when all of >>>>>>>>>>> your other choices have lost. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations, you have the election of your last remaining >>>>>>>>>>> choice !!! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> …by your strained dishonest argument. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your cult isn’t part of the electoral-reform movement. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The leaders of several single-winner-reform organizations met in >>>>>>>>>>> New Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called Rob Richie on the lie. >>>>>>>>>>> Richie promised to stop telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon >>>>>>>>>>> resumed doing so. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> How do you want me to prove it. It was told to me by someone who >>>>>>>>>>> was there. Sara Wolk, the Director of the EqualVote Coalition. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shall I ask her for the date of the meeting? I will. Shall I ask >>>>>>>>>>> her for the names of the other participants too? I’ll do that too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman < >>>>>>>>>>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what >>>>>>>>>>>> FairVote promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you >>>>>>>>>>>> cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your >>>>>>>>>>>> claims of deception and failed to do so. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st instead of ranking Good 1st. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is >>>>>>>>>>>>> no longer there. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have >>>>>>>>>>>>> a word for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a word for that too. It’s called fraud. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tallying would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg— >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then Best gets eliminated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So all that remains is Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good-supporters either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transfer was to Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Best-supporters”, when I meant “Good-supporters”. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round -- it is never counted for "Worst." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running. Which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language you cite. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either hir ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transfers go to Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is no longer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your 2nd choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise is kept: Your 2nd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend’s definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> st choice (because he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> !!!~ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B, further confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promotion of RCV. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://electorama.com/em for list info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Voter Choice Massachusetts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> p :: 617.835.9161 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em >>>>>>>>>>>>> for list info >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>

Without any intention of restarting this concluded conversation, I’d like to fix an omission: Regarding someone’s claim about being the only ones “out there doing the work”: The Center for Electoral Science introduced Approval Voting to 2 cities, where it was subsequently enacted, & has been in use: St. Louis MO, & Fargo ND. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:21 Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > Your next choice after your 1st choice is your 2nd-choice, who is no > longer there when your 1st choice is determined to lose. > > Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst, your 3rd choice. That > wasn’t FairVote’s promise. > > EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”. …but without all the > wealth that did the work for FairVote. EqualVote are a newer organization, > & therefore haven’t been “doing the work” for as long. > > I merely question the honesty & morality of how FairVote has been “doing > the work”. > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> > wrote: > >> “Our cult” are the only people actually out there doing the work. Try >> talking to voters instead of hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I >> recommend it :) >> >> Show me where FairVote explicitly states “second choice” rather than >> “next choice.” >> >> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Evidently it’s necessary to repeat that, no, that isn’t what FairVote >>> promises. They promise that your ballot will count toward your 2nd-choice. >>> Not the same thing. Your ballot, & its 2nd-choice ranking of your >>> 2nd-choice didn’t help your 2nd choice. >>> >>> Your last remaining choice? Undeniably your last remaining choice WINS, >>> because your 3rd choice is the only remaining one when all of your other >>> choices have lost. >>> >>> Congratulations, you have the election of your last remaining choice !!! >>> >>> …by your strained dishonest argument. >>> >>> Your cult isn’t part of the electoral-reform movement. >>> >>> The leaders of several single-winner-reform organizations met in New >>> Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called Rob Richie on the lie. >>> Richie promised to stop telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon >>> resumed doing so. >>> >>> How do you want me to prove it. It was told to me by someone who was >>> there. Sara Wolk, the Director of the EqualVote Coalition. >>> >>> Shall I ask her for the date of the meeting? I will. Shall I ask her for >>> the names of the other participants too? I’ll do that too. >>> >>> We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-) >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman < >>> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >>> >>>> Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what FairVote >>>> promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you >>>> cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your >>>> claims of deception and failed to do so. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best 1st >>>>> instead of ranking Good 1st. >>>>> >>>>> Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your 2nd >>>>> choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is no >>>>> longer there. >>>>> >>>>> FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a word >>>>> for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. >>>>> >>>>> When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we have a >>>>> word for that too. It’s called fraud. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis < >>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in your >>>>>> scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying >>>>>> would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who >>>>>> ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the >>>>>> final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards >>>>>> Worst. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg— >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best >>>>>>> gets eliminated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So all that remains is Worst. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters >>>>>>> either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to >>>>>>> Worst. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >>>>>>> meant “Good-supporters”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis < >>>>>>> greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two >>>>>>>> candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the >>>>>>>> most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- >>>>>>>> it is never counted for "Worst." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff < >>>>>>>> email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless >>>>>>>>> your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. >>>>>>>>> Which is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you >>>>>>>>> cite. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Satisfied? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either >>>>>>>>> hir ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to >>>>>>>>> Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2 >>>>>>>>> nd choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & >>>>>>>>> so FairVote’s promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected >>>>>>>>> !! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>>>>>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice >>>>>>>>> (because he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> … >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, >>>>>>>>> further confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the >>>>>>>>> promotion of RCV. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >>>>>>>>> list info >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* >>>>>> Voter Choice Massachusetts >>>>>> >>>>>> e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org >>>>>> p :: 617.835.9161 >>>>>> w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> >>>>>> >>>>>> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> and >>>>>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >>>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >>>>> list info >>>>> >>>>