On 24/05/2019 12:59, Richard Lung wrote: > In theory, FAB STV is an RCV system that is based on keep values, as > operated by Meek Method STV. The difference is that the former system > gives keep values for unelected, as well as elected, candidates. > Elected candidates have keep values of one or less. So, candidates > with no votes or preferences whatsoever would have keep values of > infinity. > This is not so bad as it sounds. In fact it makes no difference to the > counting procedure. If you wanted to avoid the infinities, then > candidates would be allowed to vote for themselves, ensuring a minimum > one vote. This would give the candidate a keep value that is the same > as the value of the quota (being the quota divided by one vote). > > from > Richard Lung. > > On 24/05/2019 00:30, robert bristow-johnson wrote: >> >> I think all unranked candidates are tied for last place, no? Are >> there any variants of RCV that this is different? >> >> Whether equally-ranked candidates are counted as votes for *both* >> candidates or for *neither* candidates cannot make a difference for >> Margins.  But it seems to me that it makes a difference if Winning >> Votes is the measure of defeat strength. >> >> regrads, >> >> r b-j >> >> >> >> ---------------------------- Original Message >> ---------------------------- >> Subject: Re: [EM] Defeat strength, Winning Votes vs. Margins, what to >> do with equal-ranks on the ballot? >> From: Stéphane Rouillon <stephane.rouillon@sympatico.ca> >> Date: Thu, May 23, 2019 4:24 pm >> To: rbj@audioimagination.com >> Cc: election-methods@lists.electorama.com >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > All criterias (Winning Votes, Margins, Relative Margins) have >> advantages and are acceptable. The fine choice depends on the >> interpretation you told voters that would be made of blank ballots. >> If a blank rank means "all bad", WV is perfect. If it means "all the >> same" Margin is good, and if it means "I don't know but I trust other >> voters to express a valid opinion about this option", then RM is >> perfect. Just tell voters the chosen interpretation of blank tanks in >> advance so they can fill a sincere ballot... >> > >> > Envoyé de mon iPhone >> > >> >> Le 22 mai 2019 à 20:18, robert bristow-johnson >> <rbj@audioimagination.com> a écrit : >> >> >> >> >> >> i'm posting this to the list. i hope it's okay. >> >> >> >> i had been asked: >> >> >> >> > This "plausible example" you can think of, why don't you show it >> to us? >> >> >> >> i'm not as good as you guys in dreaming up the number of ballots >> ranked however: >> >> >> >> ex. A>B>C>D >> >> >> >> but could you have a defeat matrix where >> >> >> >> A>B>C >> >> >> >> but C>A by a smaller defeat strength than A>B or B>C. But D>A by >> an even smaller defeat strength, however D<B and D>C? >> >> >> >> i dunno how to dream up ballot combinations to do that. >> >> >> >> >> >> > Without it all I can say that is that the River winner may or >> may not be >> >> > a "better choice" than the >> >> > RP winner. >> >> > >> >> > River's main practical point is that it easier than Schulze and >> RP to use. >> >> >> >> i think it's more complicated than RP. it's RP with an additional >> exception. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> i have to say i am still not convinced of WV. probably >> Schulze-Margins is still the best, but RP-Margins good enough and >> possibly easier to sell to policy makers and the public. >> >> >> >> i like Margins in principle: The percentage Margin is >> (WV-LV)/(WV+LV) and is a measure of the decisiveness of defeat, >> without respect to the size of the election. So 5% defeat is a more >> decisive defeat than a 4% defeat. >> >> >> >> But if you consider every Condorcet pair as it's own little >> election, then the salience of the election would be the number of >> voters that weigh in on it, which is WV+LV. >> >> >> >> So if the net defeat strength (the index to rank the pairs) is the >> product of how important the election is with the decisiveness of >> defeat you get: >> >> >> >> (WV+LV) x (WV-LV)/(WV+LV) = WV - LV >> >> >> >> it just seems to me that Margins is better than WV. >> >> >> >> but say, WV, is a good idea for defeat strength. is LV a better idea? >> >> >> >> hmmmm. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com >> >> >> >> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- >> >> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >> list info >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> r b-j rbj@audioimagination.com >> >> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." >> >> >> ---- >> Election-Methods mailing list - seehttps://electorama.com/em for list info > >