Taking a break
I've decided to take a break from EM. I'm not sure if I'll unsubscribe
or just not read the list mails.
Part of this is the Wikipedia stuff. Part is real world things unrelated
to EM. And part of it is that I don't have enough energy left to defend
my opinions, and there's been a lot of "why do you think X" mails on
list lately.
Now, "why do you think X" is perfectly legitimate. Responding to them
would just require more than I have at the moment.
I'll end by saying two things. First, to echo Michael's earlier plonk
post: if someone says something outrageous or bizarre and you see no
response from me, that's not because I agree. It's because I didn't see it.
Second: just to repeat, if anybody wants to start doing Wikipedia work,
let me know by mail and I'll give a list of articles that could be
improved, and how.
I think that should be it.
Oh, one more thing. I was doing some cleanup of one of my list folders.
But in retrospect, I think my email filter that sends things to the list
folders has been too broad. Thus, mails sent directly to me, off-list to
this email address with an [EM] tag in the subject might have been sent
to a list folder instead, and so I might have deleted them.
-km
Kristofer ~
You are the E-M list participant whose opinions I value the most! I
read your posts much more carefully than posts from any other participant.
In addition, I greatly appreciate your use of your software to reveal
very important insights.
Especially recently regarding HOW OFTEN failures/disadvantages occur in
the various methods. That has helped reduce the myopic tendency to
focus on the simplistic, binary categorization regarding whether a
method "never fails" or "can possibly fail" a fairness criterion.
Also your recent calculations reveal that a compromise between Condercet
methods and IRV-like eliminations yields lower vulnerabilities to
failures that involve strategic/tactical voting. Here I'm thinking of
increased appreciation for the Benham, Condorcet-IRV, Smith-IRV, and
Ranked Choice Including Pairwise Elimination methods.
I too stopped responding to every misrepresentation/mischaracterization
here in the forum.
I'm in the process of figuring out how to highlight and summarize lots
of misunderstandings so that Oregon can adopt the
Oregon-state-legislature-approved referendum that will adopt ranked
choice ballots for electing Oregon governors and Oregon members of
Congress. That's where it will be most helpful to get cooperation in
election-method reform. Especially from Star voting promoters who seem
to be learning the wrong lessons from the recent defeat of that method
in Eugene Oregon.
I'm hoping that collaboration among election-method reformers happens in
time to stop our planet from getting toasted. It's a long road because
single-winner elections are just the first step toward PR methods for
legislatures, which is where elected politicians can change laws to
yield dramatically better benefits for voters. (Of course voters
outnumber the biggest campaign contributors, yet those contributors
currently control big political parties by exploiting plurality
vulnerabilities.)
Otherwise I'm just scanning posts in this forum mostly to keep on top of
any new insights.
I too am tired of the same opinions being repeated without those writers
apparently reading and understanding what others point out.
Kristofer, I'll miss your contributions.
You are correct that Wikipedia needs lots of help! I gave up on that
battlefield when I realized that editors/writers have become the
majority of admins. Subject-matter-experts have been booted out. I was
never banned but it came too close mostly because I hurt an admin's ego.
Plus it's difficult to find academic references to every detail that
subject-matter experts know, especially on topics such as election
methods where governments don't pay academics to do meaningful
pioneering research of the kinds you, Kristofer, have been pioneering
here. Sad. Yet Wikipedia is a battlefield worth fighting on.
FWIW, I also now seldom write posts on the r/EndFPTP because a bot
downvotes everything I post. Specifically it immediately downvotes each
new post, and then adds downvotes to keep the voting ratio around 80
percent (upvotes per overall votes) to prevent those posts from the E-M
version of "going viral." Sometimes I write comments there, but mostly
those get attention only from someone who has time to repeatedly argue I
am wrong and they are right. I finally stopped responding to every one
of those misunderstandings -- including ones from some people who also
read this forum.
Kristofer, I hope you continue to at least sometimes scan some messages
in this forum. Perhaps to recognize times when you can write a few
sentences to keep these discussions from being overwhelmed by repeated
biased opinions.
Again, thank you Kristofer for all your contributions!!!!!! They have
increased the rate at which civilization is slowly progressing toward
higher levels of democracy!!!
Richard Fobes
The VoteFair guy
On 5/26/2024 5:28 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote:
I've decided to take a break from EM. I'm not sure if I'll unsubscribe
or just not read the list mails.
Part of this is the Wikipedia stuff. Part is real world things unrelated
to EM. And part of it is that I don't have enough energy left to defend
my opinions, and there's been a lot of "why do you think X" mails on
list lately.
Now, "why do you think X" is perfectly legitimate. Responding to them
would just require more than I have at the moment.
I'll end by saying two things. First, to echo Michael's earlier plonk
post: if someone says something outrageous or bizarre and you see no
response from me, that's not because I agree. It's because I didn't see it.
Second: just to repeat, if anybody wants to start doing Wikipedia work,
let me know by mail and I'll give a list of articles that could be
improved, and how.
I think that should be it.
Oh, one more thing. I was doing some cleanup of one of my list folders.
But in retrospect, I think my email filter that sends things to the list
folders has been too broad. Thus, mails sent directly to me, off-list to
this email address with an [EM] tag in the subject might have been sent
to a list folder instead, and so I might have deleted them.
-km
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list info
Hi Kristofer,
I hope this message finds you well. I understand your decision to take a
break from the Election Methods (EM) list, and I respect your need for some
time away. Your contributions have been invaluable, and while your presence
will be missed, it's important to make sure you're feeling well and not
overworking yourself.
I’ve always admired the way you handle things with such respect and
professionalism, even when we didn’t see eye to eye. Your integrity shines
through in every discussion, and that’s something I deeply respect.
So while you’re taking this breather, know your presence will be missed.
Take care, and catch you later!
On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 9:34 AM Richard, the VoteFair guy <
electionmethods@votefair.org> wrote:
Kristofer ~
You are the E-M list participant whose opinions I value the most! I
read your posts much more carefully than posts from any other participant.
In addition, I greatly appreciate your use of your software to reveal
very important insights.
Especially recently regarding HOW OFTEN failures/disadvantages occur in
the various methods. That has helped reduce the myopic tendency to
focus on the simplistic, binary categorization regarding whether a
method "never fails" or "can possibly fail" a fairness criterion.
Also your recent calculations reveal that a compromise between Condercet
methods and IRV-like eliminations yields lower vulnerabilities to
failures that involve strategic/tactical voting. Here I'm thinking of
increased appreciation for the Benham, Condorcet-IRV, Smith-IRV, and
Ranked Choice Including Pairwise Elimination methods.
I too stopped responding to every misrepresentation/mischaracterization
here in the forum.
I'm in the process of figuring out how to highlight and summarize lots
of misunderstandings so that Oregon can adopt the
Oregon-state-legislature-approved referendum that will adopt ranked
choice ballots for electing Oregon governors and Oregon members of
Congress. That's where it will be most helpful to get cooperation in
election-method reform. Especially from Star voting promoters who seem
to be learning the wrong lessons from the recent defeat of that method
in Eugene Oregon.
I'm hoping that collaboration among election-method reformers happens in
time to stop our planet from getting toasted. It's a long road because
single-winner elections are just the first step toward PR methods for
legislatures, which is where elected politicians can change laws to
yield dramatically better benefits for voters. (Of course voters
outnumber the biggest campaign contributors, yet those contributors
currently control big political parties by exploiting plurality
vulnerabilities.)
Otherwise I'm just scanning posts in this forum mostly to keep on top of
any new insights.
I too am tired of the same opinions being repeated without those writers
apparently reading and understanding what others point out.
Kristofer, I'll miss your contributions.
You are correct that Wikipedia needs lots of help! I gave up on that
battlefield when I realized that editors/writers have become the
majority of admins. Subject-matter-experts have been booted out. I was
never banned but it came too close mostly because I hurt an admin's ego.
Plus it's difficult to find academic references to every detail that
subject-matter experts know, especially on topics such as election
methods where governments don't pay academics to do meaningful
pioneering research of the kinds you, Kristofer, have been pioneering
here. Sad. Yet Wikipedia is a battlefield worth fighting on.
FWIW, I also now seldom write posts on the r/EndFPTP because a bot
downvotes everything I post. Specifically it immediately downvotes each
new post, and then adds downvotes to keep the voting ratio around 80
percent (upvotes per overall votes) to prevent those posts from the E-M
version of "going viral." Sometimes I write comments there, but mostly
those get attention only from someone who has time to repeatedly argue I
am wrong and they are right. I finally stopped responding to every one
of those misunderstandings -- including ones from some people who also
read this forum.
Kristofer, I hope you continue to at least sometimes scan some messages
in this forum. Perhaps to recognize times when you can write a few
sentences to keep these discussions from being overwhelmed by repeated
biased opinions.
Again, thank you Kristofer for all your contributions!!!!!! They have
increased the rate at which civilization is slowly progressing toward
higher levels of democracy!!!
Richard Fobes
The VoteFair guy
On 5/26/2024 5:28 AM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote:
I've decided to take a break from EM. I'm not sure if I'll unsubscribe
or just not read the list mails.
Part of this is the Wikipedia stuff. Part is real world things unrelated
to EM. And part of it is that I don't have enough energy left to defend
my opinions, and there's been a lot of "why do you think X" mails on
list lately.
Now, "why do you think X" is perfectly legitimate. Responding to them
would just require more than I have at the moment.
I'll end by saying two things. First, to echo Michael's earlier plonk
post: if someone says something outrageous or bizarre and you see no
response from me, that's not because I agree. It's because I didn't see
it.
Second: just to repeat, if anybody wants to start doing Wikipedia work,
let me know by mail and I'll give a list of articles that could be
improved, and how.
I think that should be it.
Oh, one more thing. I was doing some cleanup of one of my list folders.
But in retrospect, I think my email filter that sends things to the list
folders has been too broad. Thus, mails sent directly to me, off-list to
this email address with an [EM] tag in the subject might have been sent
to a list folder instead, and so I might have deleted them.
-km
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
info
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
info
I wish to unsubscribe because of old age and failing eyesight but I
don't see an unsubscribe option on the EM e-mails.
Regards,
Richard Lung.
On 26/05/2024 13:28, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote:
I've decided to take a break from EM. I'm not sure if I'll unsubscribe
or just not read the list mails.
Part of this is the Wikipedia stuff. Part is real world things
unrelated to EM. And part of it is that I don't have enough energy
left to defend my opinions, and there's been a lot of "why do you
think X" mails on list lately.
Now, "why do you think X" is perfectly legitimate. Responding to them
would just require more than I have at the moment.
I'll end by saying two things. First, to echo Michael's earlier plonk
post: if someone says something outrageous or bizarre and you see no
response from me, that's not because I agree. It's because I didn't
see it.
Second: just to repeat, if anybody wants to start doing Wikipedia
work, let me know by mail and I'll give a list of articles that could
be improved, and how.
I think that should be it.
Oh, one more thing. I was doing some cleanup of one of my list
folders. But in retrospect, I think my email filter that sends things
to the list folders has been too broad. Thus, mails sent directly to
me, off-list to this email address with an [EM] tag in the subject
might have been sent to a list folder instead, and so I might have
deleted them.
-km
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
info
On 5/26/2024 11:40 PM, Richard Lung wrote:
I wish to unsubscribe because of old age and failing eyesight but I
don't see an unsubscribe option on the EM e-mails.
Richard Lung, thank you for your contributions!
I admit that sometimes I read or skimmed your messages and scratched my
head wondering "what is he trying to say?"
Yet I came to appreciate that you were speaking up for significant
principles of voting. Especially taking opposition -- not just support
-- into account. Also you wisely called attention to how vote-counting
reform fits into the bigger "picture" of politics/government.
Again, thank you for your contributions!
Richard Fobes
(the other Richard)
the VoteFair guy
On 5/26/2024 11:40 PM, Richard Lung wrote:>
I wish to unsubscribe because of old age and failing eyesight but I
don't see an unsubscribe option on the EM e-mails.
Regards,
Richard Lung.
Election-Methods Subscribers
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Richard,
I wish you a comfortable and pleasant dotage.
Chris B.
On 27/05/2024 4:10 pm, Richard Lung wrote:
I wish to unsubscribe because of old age and failing eyesight but I
don't see an unsubscribe option on the EM e-mails.
Regards,
Richard Lung.
On 26/05/2024 13:28, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote:
I've decided to take a break from EM. I'm not sure if I'll
unsubscribe or just not read the list mails.
Part of this is the Wikipedia stuff. Part is real world things
unrelated to EM. And part of it is that I don't have enough energy
left to defend my opinions, and there's been a lot of "why do you
think X" mails on list lately.
Now, "why do you think X" is perfectly legitimate. Responding to them
would just require more than I have at the moment.
I'll end by saying two things. First, to echo Michael's earlier plonk
post: if someone says something outrageous or bizarre and you see no
response from me, that's not because I agree. It's because I didn't
see it.
Second: just to repeat, if anybody wants to start doing Wikipedia
work, let me know by mail and I'll give a list of articles that could
be improved, and how.
I think that should be it.
Oh, one more thing. I was doing some cleanup of one of my list
folders. But in retrospect, I think my email filter that sends things
to the list folders has been too broad. Thus, mails sent directly to
me, off-list to this email address with an [EM] tag in the subject
might have been sent to a list folder instead, and so I might have
deleted them.
-km
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
list info
Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
info