I said: No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" … Michael Garman said: … Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which is also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. Satisfied? … Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? … Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. … You rank Best>Good>Worst. … Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! … Oh, but wait, it gets even better: … Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because he’s the only remaining candidate). … Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ … Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV.

Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is never counted for "Worst." On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > I said: > > > > No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your 2nd > choice is still there. Oops !!! You & > > Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" > > … > > Michael Garman said: > > … > > Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which is > > also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. > > Satisfied? > > … > > Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? > > … > > Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. > > … > > You rank Best>Good>Worst. > > … > > Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir > ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. According > to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. The > elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise > is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! > > … > > Oh, but wait, it gets even better: > > … > > Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s definition > of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because he’s the only > remaining candidate). > > … > > Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ > > … > > Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further > confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. > ---- > Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list > info >

Greg— In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets eliminated. So all that remains is Worst. I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I meant “Good-supporters”. On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: > Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates > (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes > wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is > never counted for "Worst." > > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I said: >> >> >> >> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >> >> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >> >> … >> >> Michael Garman said: >> >> … >> >> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which is >> >> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. >> >> Satisfied? >> >> … >> >> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >> >> … >> >> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >> >> … >> >> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >> >> … >> >> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. According >> to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. The >> elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s promise >> is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >> >> … >> >> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >> >> … >> >> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s definition >> of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because he’s the only >> remaining candidate). >> >> … >> >> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >> >> … >> >> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >> > ---- >> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >> info >> >

Your problem here is that the electorate doesn’t agree with your preferences, not that the system is broken. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:50 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > Greg— > > In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets > eliminated. > > So all that remains is Worst. > > I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either > didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. > > …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I meant > “Good-supporters”. > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> > wrote: > >> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates >> (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes >> wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is >> never counted for "Worst." >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I said: >>> >>> >>> >>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>> >>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>> >>> … >>> >>> Michael Garman said: >>> >>> … >>> >>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which >>> is >>> >>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. >>> >>> Satisfied? >>> >>> … >>> >>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>> >>> … >>> >>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>> >>> … >>> >>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>> >>> … >>> >>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>> >>> … >>> >>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>> >>> … >>> >>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because he’s >>> the only remaining candidate). >>> >>> … >>> >>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>> >>> … >>> >>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>> >> ---- >>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>> info >>> >> ---- > Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list > info >

On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 23:32 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: > Your problem here is that the electorate doesn’t agree with your > preferences, not that the system is broken. > What system? RCV? It isn’t broken, but it’s being fraudulently-promoted. It’s about lying. The public have a right to know what they’re getting & what it will do, when they enact a voting-system. Is the false promotion intended to sell them something that they wouldn’t buy without the lying? Why else lie? That isn’t the conduct of someone who cares about the electorate or the population. > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:50 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Greg— >> >> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets >> eliminated. >> >> So all that remains is Worst. >> >> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either >> didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. >> >> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >> meant “Good-supporters”. >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates >>> (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes >>> wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is >>> never counted for "Worst." >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I said: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>> >>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Michael Garman said: >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which >>>> is >>>> >>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. >>>> >>>> Satisfied? >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because >>>> he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>>> >>> ---- >>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>>> info >>>> >>> ---- >> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >> info >> >

In your scenario, the candidate you like second most gets eliminated first, and the transfers indicate that the candidate you like least is more popular than the one you like most. That’s unfortunate for you, but it doesn’t mean IRV is inherently flawed. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:18 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 23:32 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> > wrote: > >> > Your problem here is that the electorate doesn’t agree with your >> preferences, not that the system is broken. >> > > What system? RCV? It isn’t broken, but it’s being fraudulently-promoted. > > It’s about lying. > > The public have a right to know what they’re getting & what it will do, > when they enact a voting-system. > > Is the false promotion intended to sell them something that they wouldn’t > buy without the lying? > > Why else lie? > > That isn’t the conduct of someone who cares about the electorate or the > population. > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:50 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Greg— >>> >>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets >>> eliminated. >>> >>> So all that remains is Worst. >>> >>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either >>> didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. >>> >>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >>> meant “Good-supporters”. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two >>>> candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the >>>> most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- >>>> it is never counted for "Worst." >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I said: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>>>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>> >>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. >>>>> Which is >>>>> >>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you >>>>> cite. >>>>> >>>>> Satisfied? >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>>>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>>>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>>>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>>>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because >>>>> he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>>>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>>>> >>>> ---- >>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >>>>> list info >>>>> >>>> ---- >>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>> info >>> >>

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 00:29 Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: > In your scenario, the candidate you like second most gets eliminated first, > and the transfers indicate that the candidate you like least is more > popular than the one you like most. That’s unfortunate for you, but it > doesn’t mean IRV is inherently flawed. > Then don’t try to lie about it. I didn’t say that RCV is inherently flawed. I merely said that FairVote’s honestly & moral character are inherently flawed. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:18 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 23:32 Michael Garman < >> michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote: >> >>> >> Your problem here is that the electorate doesn’t agree with your >>> preferences, not that the system is broken. >>> >> >> What system? RCV? It isn’t broken, but it’s being fraudulently-promoted. >> >> It’s about lying. >> >> The public have a right to know what they’re getting & what it will do, >> when they enact a voting-system. >> >> Is the false promotion intended to sell them something that they wouldn’t >> buy without the lying? >> >> Why else lie? >> >> That isn’t the conduct of someone who cares about the electorate or the >> population. >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 2:50 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greg— >>>> >>>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets >>>> eliminated. >>>> >>>> So all that remains is Worst. >>>> >>>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters >>>> either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to >>>> Worst. >>>> >>>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >>>> meant “Good-supporters”. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two >>>>> candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the >>>>> most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- >>>>> it is never counted for "Worst." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I said: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless >>>>>> your 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>>> >>>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. >>>>>> Which is >>>>>> >>>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you >>>>>> cite. >>>>>> >>>>>> Satisfied? >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>>>>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>>>>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>>>>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>>>>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because >>>>>> he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>>>> >>>>>> … >>>>>> >>>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>>>>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >>>>>> list info >>>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>>> info >>>> >>>

But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in your scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards Worst. On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > Greg— > > In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets > eliminated. > > So all that remains is Worst. > > I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either > didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. > > …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I meant > “Good-supporters”. > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> > wrote: > >> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates >> (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes >> wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is >> never counted for "Worst." >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I said: >>> >>> >>> >>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>> >>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>> >>> … >>> >>> Michael Garman said: >>> >>> … >>> >>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which >>> is >>> >>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. >>> >>> Satisfied? >>> >>> … >>> >>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>> >>> … >>> >>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>> >>> … >>> >>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>> >>> … >>> >>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>> >>> … >>> >>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>> >>> … >>> >>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because he’s >>> the only remaining candidate). >>> >>> … >>> >>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>> >>> … >>> >>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>> >> ---- >>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>> info >>> >> -- *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* Voter Choice Massachusetts e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org p :: 617.835.9161 w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> ::

Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best 1st instead of ranking Good 1st. Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your 2nd choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is no longer there. FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a word for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we have a word for that too. It’s called fraud. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> wrote: > But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in your > scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying > would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who > ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the > final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards > Worst. > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Greg— >> >> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets >> eliminated. >> >> So all that remains is Worst. >> >> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either >> didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. >> >> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >> meant “Good-supporters”. >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates >>> (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes >>> wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is >>> never counted for "Worst." >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I said: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>> >>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Michael Garman said: >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which >>>> is >>>> >>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite. >>>> >>>> Satisfied? >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because >>>> he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>> >>>> … >>>> >>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>>> >>> ---- >>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list >>>> info >>>> >>> > > -- > *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* > Voter Choice Massachusetts > > e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org > p :: 617.835.9161 > w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> > > :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> and Twitter > <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >

Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what FairVote promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your claims of deception and failed to do so. On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> wrote: > Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best 1st instead > of ranking Good 1st. > > Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your 2nd choice > when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is no longer > there. > > FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a word for > intentional false statements. It’s called a lie. > > When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we have a word > for that too. It’s called fraud. > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> > wrote: > >> But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in your >> scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying >> would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who >> ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the >> final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards >> Worst. >> >> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Greg— >>> >>> In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets >>> eliminated. >>> >>> So all that remains is Worst. >>> >>> I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either >>> didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst. >>> >>> …but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I >>> meant “Good-supporters”. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two >>>> candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the >>>> most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- >>>> it is never counted for "Worst." >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I said: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2nd choice] , unless your >>>>> 2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You & >>>>> >>>>> Richie forgot to include the word "Maybe" >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Michael Garman said: >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Fine…it counts for your next highest choice still in the running. >>>>> Which is >>>>> >>>>> also a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you >>>>> cite. >>>>> >>>>> Satisfied? >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Does that person have any idea what he’s saying? >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Say the election is between Best, Good, &Worst. >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> You rank Best>Good>Worst. >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Good gets eliminated first, & then Best gets eliminated, & either hir >>>>> ballots don’t have a 2nd choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. >>>>> According to our friend here, now Good is no longer your 2nd choice. >>>>> The elimination of Good makes Worst your 2nd choice, & so FairVote’s >>>>> promise is kept: Your 2nd choice, Worst is elected !! >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Oh, but wait, it gets even better: >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Worst isn’t only your 2nd choice now: By our IRVist friend’s >>>>> definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1st choice (because >>>>> he’s the only remaining candidate). >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Congratulations !! You’ve elected your 1st choice, Worst !!!~ >>>>> >>>>> … >>>>> >>>>> Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury: I present to you exhibit B, further >>>>> confirmation of the universal astounding dishonesty of the promotion of RCV. >>>>> >>>> ---- >>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for >>>>> list info >>>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> *Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director* >> Voter Choice Massachusetts >> >> e :: greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org >> p :: 617.835.9161 >> w :: voterchoicema.org <https://www.voterchoicema.org/> >> >> :: Follow us on Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv> and Twitter >> <https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv> :: >> > ---- > Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list > info >